Nihongojouzu

Speaking Girly Japanese

Courtesy of JapanProbe, an article in the Christian Science Monitor about the perils of Western men sounding like a girl when they speak Japanese. The article suffers from an Amy Chavez style of writing - throwing in Japanese words at random and then offering translations - and some of the examples are simply common sense (yes, referring to yourself in the third person is not a good idea), but at least the issue is flagged and the warning given: guys - when learning how to speak Japanese don't confine yourself to imitating 20-something Japanese women. 

あげる、もらう and くれる

I received a query from a friend in Ehime today, concerning the use of くれる、あげる and もらう．After I had typed up a brief reply I realised it may be useful to others and in the spirit of environmental friendliness I have recycled it here (For the consumate explanation I refer readers to Jay Rubin's Making Sense of Japanese).

I am taking the two week intensive course at EPIC in Matsuyama and yesterday we covered あげる、もらう　and くれる. I understand the uses of these with nouns, for example AさんはBさんにプレゼントをあげました、BさんはAさんにプレゼントをもらいました。But, when you use these verbs with other verbs, what is the difference from just using the other verb on its own? For example, AさんはBさんにおかねをかしてあげました. Why would you say this as opposed to simply AさんはBさんにおかねをかしました？How is the nuance different? Is it more polite or something? And is it weird that I keep wanting to use the particle から as opposed to に when talking about the person FROM whom the noun/verb was given?!

あげる、もらう　and くれる
When used with just nouns: they refer to the actual physical giving/receiving of objects. When used with verbs: they refer to doing something for someone, or someone doing something for you.

Look at these examples:
本をくれた：　(somebody) gave me a book
電話してくれた (somebody) called me on the phone

Your examples seem to be from a textbook - fine for explaining stuff but not really going into the why/usage area. Normally you wouldn't be saying Aさん and Bさん - they would be obvious from the circumstances. But then if you only said かしました　you haven't said who is lending to whom. If I am talking to you about someone else and just say かしました　it isn't immediately clear who lent to whom, but if I say かしてあげました you know instantly that I did the lending, because only I could あげる - if I said かしてくれました　you know the other person lent me money.

AさんはBさんにおかねをかしてあげました
AさんはBさんにおかねをかしました

And for に and から just remember that either can be used when there is a physical object being received:
友達から／にプレゼントをもらった。

But when you receive the benefit of an action you can only mark the giver with に：
友達に／から買ってもらった

While we're on the topic - try not to use あげる too much: with friends it is OK, but with someone older etc it comes across as something like "Shall I do this wonderful thing for you?" Instead, use ~ましょう, e.g. an old lady has a heavy suitcase and wants to get up the stairs - 手伝いましょうか？　is better because it just says "Can I give you a hand?" while 手伝ってあげましょうか　is like saying "Shall I do you the favour of carrying your bag up the heavy steps, thus causing you to be in my debt and feel beholden to me for the rest of your life or at least until I have moved out of sight."

Also, くれる　is used when you are speaking in the first person right? Like, you can only use this when talking about receiving something towards yourself?! BUT, you could also use もらう in this instance and it would be ok? You just can't use くれる　in the same way as もらう when you are talking about other people? I just wanted to check I've understood this correctly.

I like to think of it like this:
してくれる＝do something for me
してもらう=have someone do something for me

電話してくれた：　someone called me
電話してもらった： I had someone call (somewhere) for me

くれる refers more to the giving aspect (the other person is giving you something).  もらう　refers to the receiving aspect (you receive something). もらう also carries the implication that you made some kind of request. Both constructions could refer to exactly the same situation - it just depends on what you are emphasising. Look at these examples in English:
He called me yesterday.
I got a call from him yesterday.

And yes, もらう　has a wider application that くれる。If I use くれる　then someone is doing something for ME and me only. Think of くれる as a boomerang - it always comes back to you.*

もらう　is more like a frisbee - anyone can catch it, because もらう can refer to an action being done for ME OR SOMEONE ELSE (usually someone in my in group but at the very least someone I empathise with).

Aさんからもらった：I got (something) from A
BくんはAさんからもらった：B got (something) from A where B is a friend, family etc

And bonus lesson - くださる　is the polite version of くれる、and いただく　is the polite version of もらう、so the same principles apply

Hope this helps

cheers

Will

*Think of the razor sharp boomerang in Mad Max 2 which slices off the fingers of anyone who tries to intercept it, always returning to its rightful owner, the Feral Kid.

Aiaigasa

A helpful reader has sent me a couple of photos demonstrating that far from being obsolete, the expression aiaigasa (相合傘　- sharing an umbrella) which popped up in yesterday's post, is thriving in its incarnation as a youthful declaration of love:

Believe it or not, this one is still alive and kicking.  Young kids carve little umbrellas into wood and put their initials underneath it, in much the same way that we do with initials and hearts back home.  I saw fresh aiaigasas as recently as this New Years (drawn onto dirty glass).  I took some pictures which I'll share with you.  It's mostly elementary kids and jr. high schoolers who do this.  Some joker put "ika" and "tako" under one.  Enjoy!

Thanks Thomas!

Advanced Idiomatic Expressions

Courtesy of the Honyaku list, a link to a wonderful collection of idiomatic expressions described as having been "selected specifically for advanced learners of the Japanese language".  It wasn't the "advanced" bit which piqued my interest, it was this caveat:

Expressions with * are considered not Politically Correct. They are listed here mainly for passive recognition.

Those with ** are obsolete expressions also for passive recognition. The judgment is, however, entirely my own.

Naturally I went straight for the politically correct expressions, which on their face didn't seem terribly offensive:

• 若いつばめ (わかいつばめ) (lit. young swallow) is an old expression for a young male lover (I assume swallow refers to the avian kind).

• 藪医者 (やぶいしゃ) (li. bush doctor) is a quack

• もく拾い (もくひろい) cigarette-butt gatherer (a slight against the poor I presume)

Perhaps when I have taken the time to do some research I will discover how these expressions fell from grace.

And one of the obsolete expressions:

• 相合傘 **   あいあいがさ sharing　one umbrella (between lovers)

I actually heard one day when a Japanese woman of advancing years giggled it to me as we shared an umbrella during a typhoon. For the purposes of clarification we weren't, nor did we become, lovers.

A little bit every day: reading while commuting

Based on a post on Naruhodo! I picked up a copy of 日本語のカタチとココロ a few weeks ago and threw it in my bag. It lives in the bag and only gets read when I ride the train. This means that although sometimes I don't read it for a day or two it is always with me when I commute and depending on how crowded the train is I can normally extract it from my bag and read a few pages. I don't carry any other books with me (a gripping novel is too great a temptation) and the only other material I read on the train is the content of the ad posters (and occasionally phone emails). After a busy week with lots of train travel I realised I have nearly finished the book. Considering that most of my train journeys were short, that there were times I was nodding off and couldn't concentrate, and that I have been distracted by the more amusing posters, I have probably not read more than two or three pages per journey. Completing a slim (136 pages) volume like this is no big achievement in itself - the point is this - by making this book my train book I defined the time when I would read it, and made progress by nibbling away, rather than trying to devour chunks at a time. Meanwhile my Death Note manga, which sit in my living room, have been neglected for weeks - I haven't set aside time to read them.

Years ago, when I lived in Sydney and before I had ever contemplated studying Japanese, I used to have a hour long commute each way to university. Ideal study time, but often given over to dirty great Stephen King novels. Still, at 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and 36 weeks of term that worked out at 360 hours of reading a year -  I got through a lot of books (even factoring in those times I fell asleep and had to be woken at the terminus by the driver). When I started work 36 weeks became 48 weeks (4 weeks holidays per year in Australia - thank you!) and I had 480 hours of reading built in to my schedule.

So Grasshopper, the lesson to be extracted from today's post and applied to J-learning:
1. ALWAYS carry a Japanese book (beginners - use a kindergarten picture book!) when you commute.
2. DON'T carry an English language book - when you are tired you will default to it.
3. LEAVE the book in your bag/jacket - when you get home don't take it into the toilet to read it - you'll forget it.
4. Pick a book you can read easily - you don't want to have to be looking up kanji.
5. Try not to fall asleep on the bus/train.

Toypography

No, that's not a spelling mistake. Toypography is a set of toy blocks, produced by stationery giant Kokuyo, which can spell out the names of animals in both Roman letters (yes, yes - the alphabet) AND kanji. But wait -there's more - the blocks can also form the shape of the animal being named. My favourite is fish, but bear is cool too. What a great way to spend quality time with your children and get some study in.

2007 Japanese Language Proficiency Test application forms out

Application forms for the 2007 JLPT are now available at major bookstores. People who live in the inaka can order a copy online from Kinokuniya. The application form will set you back 500 yen and the test fee is 5,500 yen. The test will be held on Sunday December 2 and final day for applications is September 11. More details can be found on the Japan Educational Exchange and Services site and for people wanting to sit the test outside Japan the Japan Foundation has information on cities where the test will be held. If you have been living under a rock and have no idea what I am talking about you can read about the JLPT here. Sample questions and results for past years are here. This post has some hints on passing Level 1 (the hardest level, also referred to as 1kyu, ikkyu, 1Q and "that %$#?}#&! test"). For lots of free study material check out the MLC Japanese website.

Naruhodo!: Nintendo DS focused J-blog

Apologies, apologies - I have fallen prey to the Tokyo lifestyle and neglected my blog. A nagging voice in the back of my mind reminded me every so often but I had no problem ignoring it. It wasn't until people started posting comments saying "Update!" that my conscience, and sense of shame, kicked in. I was exhausted this evening, and contemplating a nice, concerted act of procrastination, but I received an email telling me to "update!", so here I go.

Today I am introducing the Japanese language learning blog Naruhodo! (Disclosure - Chris, one of the guys behind the site is a friend of mine and tried to influence this review by bribing me with an exotic cheese, which unfortunately for him, smelt like a turd.) Described as "Info about learning Japanese and testing your skills", Naruhodo! focuses on real-life Japanese, specifically as found in books, on TV and the Nintendo DS. Yep - if you are considering buying any language learning DS software you should check out the reviews on Naruhodo - the guys provide detailed, well written reviews, with lots of examples and good analysis. But not just learning-through-learning, these guys are into games too, championing the learning-through-gaming approach. There is plenty of non-DS stuff two - reviews of books, general commentary and study tips. Sprinkled liberally with kanji examples, those whose reading is not up to speed may need rikaichan or Moji to read everything, but the effort is worth it. The guys have their finger on the pulse and consequently have lots of topical material (Way ahead of me.....sniff.... ). I heartily recommend a visit, tell them that Nihongojouzu sent you, and watch out for the cheese.

Even more Mac/PC ads

Learner Stories interviewee Kaoru Miki has been busy subtitling the latest Apple Mac/PC ads, and doing a masterful job of it. Check out Kaoru's blog for the others.

Harvey of JapanNewbie: Learner Stories

I found  today's interviewee via his blog, JapanNewbie, which I discovered way back in 2004 and have read on and off since then. Amusing, informative and something many blogs are not - enthusiastic. Late last year I noticed Harvey had another blog - this one geared to learning Japanese. I was intrigued. I emailed, found out that Harvey was currently enrolled at the IUC in Yokohama and knew that I had to interview him, if only to get the inside story on that esteemed  establishment of Japanese learning legend. But enough of me rambling - let's hear the pearls of wisdom from today's guest (who amazingly is NOT an ex-JET!)

Let's start the ball rolling - name, rank and serial number:

Harvey of JapanNewbie.com, and Japan Ads blog.

What's your background? (How long have you been studying Japanese?）

I have been studying Japanese since my first year in high school in the US. That makes a total of more than 10 years with the Japanese language... Time flies.

Anyway...

I continued studying throughout university, and spent one year abroad at Nanzan University in Nagoya before graduating. After graduating, I came to Japan to work. I did the suit thing for four years in an environment where I had to use Japanese daily. I am now studying at an intensive Japanese program in Yokohama called IUC (Inter-University Center for Japanese Studies).

Why did you start learning Japanese (and not say, French)?

It was a process of elimination really.